April 2017 Advocacy Minutes

Tuesday, 4/4/17 6:00 - 8:00 PM,

Cleveland National Forest, Palomar Ranger District

1634 Black Canyon Road

Ramona, CA 92065

For information contact: info@SDMBA.com or

Kevin Loomis President

President@sdmba.com  619.501.4567

 

Headcount - approximately 60 people + rangers

Meeting begins at approximately 6:10 PM

 

Roll Call/Forest service announcements

Rangers present:

  • Chris Delling - ranger in Palomar district

  • Lee Hamm - Recreation/land officer Palomar Ranger District

  • Joey Martin - assistant to Lee Hamm

 

Board members present:

Ben Stone - VP of SDMBA

Kevin Loomis - SDMBA President

Susie Murphy - Executive Director

Jose Galaz - Board member

 

Liaisons present:

  • Matt Bartelt - Black Mountain liaison

 

Opening remarks:

  1. We are streaming the presentation on Facebook live! Please check out our Facebook page if you would like to see the entire presentation.

  2. This is not a forest service meeting, but they are hosting us.

  3. We are a non-profit, not a public agency. We are all outdoor enthusiasts and want to get feedback from various communities, including MTB and equestrian enthusiasts.

 

Presentation - Ben Stone, Vice President of SDMBA

  1. West Side Truck Trail

    1. Potential connection to trans-county trail

    2. Partially fire road, part of it goes along tribal land. We are looking at how to get around that area of tribal land and how partner in other parts of the area.

    3. Cedar creek falls to connect to west side truck trail: Eagle peak road down saddleback, cedar creek and cross onto west side truck trail

    4. Proposing a trail alignment for this section of trail

    5. We will need to finance staff time, raise funds for building the trail

    6. Partner in the county has taken on easements, etc. some level of county involvement would most likely happen

    7. El Cap Reservoir - backcountry experience. Potentially replacing fire road/adding trail that would give a nature-based experience.

 

Goals:

  1. Stay engaged in the process

  2. Support the project

  3. Volunteer labor

  4. Potential fundraising project

  5. Alignment to Trans-county trail

 

2. Boulder Oaks

  1. County preserve, recently acquired

  2. Foster truck trail comes off the backside of this (CDFW Property)

  3. Potential of a 55 mile connection in this area

  4. Stowe was just opened up last week, process of permitting is happening

  5. Concerns about access/emergency access to that area

  6. This area include a few man-made lakes, but is currently not open to the public

  7. Problem with original trails plan - occurred 13 years ago and was mainly concerned with fire road instead of nature trail. We are looking for narrow, nature-based trail systems.

 

Goals:

  1. Show up for future meetings

  2. Comment about sustainable trails

  3. Mtb access

  4. Regional importance

  5. Future connections to Foster truck trail and Sycamore/Goodan Ranch

 

3. Pamo Valley/Orosco Ridge Trails Plan

  1. For reference: SDMBA has had a long relationship with the Descanso Ranger District. We are currently in talks with Palomar about trail opportunities.

  2. First step: letter of intent signed by forest service/Will Metz (Cleveland national forest supervisor)

  3. SDMBA has worked with this group since 2011 to maintain MTB opportunities. Identified an area to potentially be developed. Pursuing grant funding to further efforts.

  4. Pamo Valley is north of the ranger district, and has to go through entire NEPA process.

  5. We are looking to partner with a professional, experienced, international design firm to build a trails plan.

  6. Cleveland National Forest approves trail system with minimal infrastructure, but without manmade or unnatural features. No wood, bike parks, etc. Will be using natural landscape for our advantage.

  7. SDMBA has a volunteer agreement with the forest service. This letter is also located on our website.

  8. Next, we move forward with contractors. Our options include IMBA Trail Solutions and Progressive Trail Designs, which will both make bids. The final decision on which contractor to partner with will be made at a future board meeting.

  9. “Ditch out points” - could ride out and around to staging area. This offers people some sort of loop, even if it is 10 miles, 20 miles, 40 miles

  10. Two bids are for approximately 80 miles

    1. Need to prove to forest service, make sure that we can prove the concept and theory, prove we can build, maintain, and provide funding

    2. Looking at putting in directional trails to the south

    3. We are creating a concept plan and will be given recommendations, forest service will have the final say on all of these.

    4. Potential consultants - bring stakeholders to the group to talk about these issues

    5. Meetings to hear feedback from all parties

 

The Vision

  • A world class MTB destination

  • SDMBA wants ramona to become an international MTB destination

  • Ben Stone will be doing this presentation to citizens advisory, county supervisor, etc. Currently we are fundraising for concept plan, not yet a bid plan

  • Purpose built directional trails in the Orosco Ridge area, open to different skill levels

  • Offer experience for families

 

Plan

  • Partnership with U.S. Forest Service, SDMBA, local trail organization and community

  • 23,000 acres of non-wilderness connected National Forest Service Land

  • Professionally designed trail plan by a nationally recognized firm

  • A phased approach with ongoing fundraising

  • SDMBA has started to raise funding: grants (about $5000, $15,000), crowdsourcing ($2500 from email today), donations from ad campaign, committed to sending checks, etc. We are on track to raise necessary funds

  • Want people to feel ownership of this project, and want you to feel connected to the project

  • Easiest way to fund project is to find the funding, rather than pushing land managers to find funding for us

 

Enhancing Ramona

  • Tourism

  • Heads to beds, patrons at restaurants

  • Recreational jewel in the area of Ramona

 

4. Benefits of mountain biking tourism - Oakridge, Oregon

  1. $2.3-$4.9 million in revenue from changes with MTB tourism

 

5. Mountain biking behavior

  1. Some statistics on riding and traveling, including top western destinations, including Moab, Sedona, Bend, Mammoth

  2. Ramona has an advantage that other areas do not, including weather

 

Regional connectivity:

  • Coast to crest trail

    • Connect black mountain/PQ, areas of north county.

  • Trans county trail

  • Future connections to descanso ranger district

  • Future san diego river park trail

 

Steps to breaking ground

  1. Concept plan 2017

  2. NEPA process 2018 into 2019

  3. Phase one build 2019

  4. Phase two 2020

  5. Phase three and four 2021

 

Funding sources:

  • SDC Enhancement Program

  • Green sticker grants

  • PLDO funds

  • Neighborhood Reinvestment Program

  • Recreational trails program grants

 

Notes:

  1. We are borrowing from other areas that have come up with these kind of plans (like Sedona, Big Bear, Mammoth, other areas)

  2. Partnership, cost-share agreements, directional trail systems have come from other areas that we have travelled to and seen before.

  3. We have 25 liaisons, are working with CDFW, and have partnership agreements that work

  4. Kevin and Ben worked very hard on the Stowe trail re-alignment, if we have a willing partner we can make funding happen

 

Presentation over

 

Questions and answer session

 

Q1: How much does it cost to make new trail?

  1. Ben Stone: We are looking at a phased approach. Example: Caliente, NV received a 1 million in grant funding for 45 miles. SDMBA is the second largest chapter in the country, with 1200 members and growing. We have a mall army of people who are willing to build trail, work hard. When we work with volunteers rather than only a firm, we can get costs down significantly.

  2. Identify funds for concept plan, get through NEPA process. Potentially asking to defer costs. $40K is just for concept plan, not building an inch of trail yet.

  3. We are hiring a company on our own to help create a document that forest service can insert into their trails plan/process.

 

Q2: Equestrians also drink beer! Is there a conceptual plan will also include potential staging?

  1. Forest service does not have anything to do with staging.

Staging area can cost 400-500k. We will not ask for staging areas, but forest service will not allow too many people without infrastructure.

 

Q3: Marty: Backcountry horsemen of CA/CA trail alliance

  1. Equestrian community can support this as long as it benefits the overall trails community, including hikers, runners, equestrians. Multi-use trails as part of this. Trails being user-specific is not beneficial, trails are for everyone and everyone should be able to use them.

  2. Safety is a number one issue - all trail users should be able to share trails without posing a threat to anyone else

  3. How will safety be addressed, including speed, etc.?

  4. Staging is number two issue, this number of people cannot park on the side of the road, etc. This area has to be able to handle the amount of traffic. What he would like to see MTB community do is work with all user groups and keep them as part of the planning process.

  5. Relationship between MTB and equestrian community is very good in this area, most riders are respectful and considerate. Keep positive relationship going. Equestrians can support this if it benefits the community overall.

  1. Letter of intent is specific: provides clarity that these must be multi-use trails (especially in ramona). Conflict often comes down to design

 

Q4: Ron Guitard - $1 million in Nevada - strictly for 45 miles of trail?

  1. Outsource entire NEPA process, which is possibly what was done. Gone toward hiding consultants, maintenance in the future. We need to find resources to maintain trails ongoing, extra funding that is used.

 

Q5: Mammoth, Big Bear, etc. have money donated that they can continually use. How much thought has been put on what would be a revenue driver for this kind of area?

  1. A lot more funds are given to this area than any other county in the state. Community enhancement fund $1 mil, etc. Luckily, we have a county supervisor who is known for interest in trails and have approached her office. A lot of this goes back to Chamber of commerce, for thinking about how to bring revenue into town.

  2. Looking at a lot of new funding sources - mainly falls on Susie/grant writing. Green stickers for infrastructure - Orosco Ridge damage from off-road activity (ex. Like mccain valley, Chapparal got budget for signs $600,000, etc)

 

Q6: Can we compare to  how much trails in Black Mountain cost?

  1. Miles built: about 6 miles total, another 2.5 to 3 planned.

  2. $12,000 labor from city, everything else was volunteer work. Mostly hand built with hand tools, built to SD standards which were wide. Cost was minimal

 

Q7: Should have a place on this trail for DH riding/gravity oriented riding. Offshoots for hikers and equestrians to take, if there is an mtb only spot.

  1. This would be new to san diego, but there is a need for this. Almost none of these trails are legal. We have so few open spaces.

 

Q8: City of moab: big problem with population of town expanding, extra trash is produced. Make sure to address expenses that are created that will not get absorbed

  1. Responsible group of county supervisors that oversee this area, hope is that increased revenue would go to funding infrastructure improvements

  2. There are some restrictions already in place that would help to prevent that.

 

Q9: Multi-use, 70-80 percent trail?

  1. IMBA trail solutions, if we hire them we will give them room to come up with what they think is best. Cool directional trails, not long, sessionable, etc. 8, 10, 15 miles can meet a lot of needs.

 

Q10: What would the other 30 percent of trails be, for example?

  1. We are in a conceptual phase. Directional trails are built because you are not meant to look for someone coming up a descending trail.

  2. Do not have to worry about those things - carrying more speed, diversion turns, rocks, etc.

  3. Consistent with practices in other areas

  4. Safety issue

  5. There is an ask for this, everyone would use this area if it was there

 

Q11: Equestrians are happy to have MTB riders have directional trails

  1. There is a potential to serve .all the users groups. Directional definitely make sense for a lot of these areas

 

Q12: Gatos ravine - originally was shared use, created with jumps, confrontations to close to all except mtb use. Equestrian community petitioned this, and now it is open to all users again. Equestrians are not able to ride noble, etc. West Side truck trail goal?

  1. Looking for the goal of improving the user experience the whole way down. Creating singletrack trail going down through this area.

 

Q13: Amount of trash in forest service land, etc.

  1. We can partner with forest service in areas like orosco, opportunities to make land a better place. We have the ability to gather huge groups of people for advocacy, and work to build and maintain trails. We would like to see more partnership, inspire people to get involved in public lands.

 

Q14: Any horse-bike conflict is about education

  1. So far, SDMBA has spent a lot of time doing a program training with horses-bikes

  2. Allocated thousands of dollars for bike bell program

  3. The more members we have, the more people we have that are getting educated. Passed 6500 likes on Facebook today!

 

Q15: Marty: huge amount of respect for mtb community - is it well-organized, led, funded, setting an example for trail community. Most of these trails were previously equestrian trails, hiking trails, and motorcycle trails.

  1. Kevin: requests for building trails, will request for pack horses, water, etc. would love to see more of that engagement at work parties. We can partner and do a lot more together.

 

Q16: Are there going to be more MTB only trails in the near future?

  1. Ben is mindful of mission statements of the agencies that we are working with. Nearly all of these are multi-use. We do not envision bike-only trails. Pocket bike park is planned in TJ River Valley, Chula Vista, maybe the size of this room. Bike playground, pacific highlands ranch. Allocated funds for these.

 

Q17: Trail machine use?

  1. Would love to see Bobcat with a blade on front, like the one used at black mountain that helped cut trail. This has to be consistent with what forest service sees.

 

  • Donation to crestridge ecological reserve of $500 to buy tools.

  1. The only CDFW preserve where mtb riders are allowed at that level.

  2. It was an equestrian who proposed we give a donation. 8-10 miles multi-use trail has been built at Crestridge.

 

Q18: Would the Ramona team like a closed course mtb course? Would need a staging area for spectators?

  1. Robert Grace, coach for MTB school. Having singletrack to work for skills is great, but being able to have an event in Ramona would be beneficial in the future.

 

Thank you to the forest service for allowing us to use their space.

 

Meeting adjourned at 7:44 PM

 

Minutes recorded by: Siobhan Baloochi, SDMBA Secretary